I need your help today… and perhaps a little understanding.
Since I have been writing this Republican-based blog, a number of people have felt an obligation to tell me that they are Independent voters (technically Unenrolled), and that they vote for the best person in an election, regardless of Party.
For all the emotion this seems to cause, being “independent” is hardly a big deal. After all, 51% of all registered voters have chosen to be registered as Unenrolled in Westborough, and in Massachusetts. However, it’s often the condescending manner in which they say it that is particularly amusing, as if there is something inherently superior about their being Unenrolled that is far better than my being affiliated with a political party – especially the Republican Party in Massachusetts.
You can understand, therefore, that I might occasionally wonder about Unenrolled voters – are they noble, naïve, or just not interested?
I can understand the noble part. Being a registered Democrat may create a sense of political angst attempting to rationalize the obligation to vote for Elizabeth Warren, the minority-in-her-mind, affirmative action poseur, for Senator. Being Unenrolled provides the freedom to vote for the candidate who has not already deceived her employers and the people. But let’s be fair – nobility goes both ways because there are many Republicans who are conflicted by Scott Brown’s frequent tendency to behave and vote like a Democrat. This is obviously not a problem for the Unenrolled who may actually see Brown’s bi-partisanship as a major positive.
However, even if Unenrolled voters feel a sense of elevated satisfaction by voting for the “best person” based on whatever their criteria, isn’t this thinking too simplistic and naïve? The Nation, and this State, are run by hierarchical political parties. With too few exceptions, “best candidates” rapidly devolve into Party followers, vote in political lockstep devoid of their alleged principles, and disllusion the people who voted for them. When challenged regarding their positions or votes, these “best candidates” typically become gobbledegooking hack rationalizers of the political process who feel the need to explain why you aren’t bright enough to understand “the way things really work in Washington/Boston.” Perhaps some of the Unenrolled who feel that their original trust has been rolled over should ask their Reps why their values had changed or why they are even needed if they are going to vote 98% of the time with the Party leadership.
But, then I wonder how many Unenrolled voters are just not interested in politics. After all, if they are receiving governmental free stuff, or are working for a government agency, or believe that America is and has been flawed, or simply do not care that adding unsustainable debt and yielding personal freedom and liberty will compromise future generations, or support income distribution or want America to be transformed, they would already be registered as a Democrat. Does that mean that being Unenrolled is synonymous with being apathetic, ambivalent, and don’t blame me? Certainly if measured by voter turnout. Despite being the majority of voters, only about 40% of the Unenrolled voted in Westborough in the 2008 election, and not even half that many in the 2010 special election. Apparently being unenrolled means not being that special.
Yet, incredibly, the candidates always seem most occupied in attracting the so-called “Independent swing vote.” This is why the ads are always so negative. They are made to mislead and persuade the vast Unenrolled voting block that is the least politically and issue-focused, but the most politically lazy and susceptible to believing the alleged garbage that pollutes our televisions every ten minutes during the election stretch runs. As they say, “Garbage in, garbage out.”
My advice to the Unenrolled majority is to remember that the political process applies to all of us – whether you actively participate or blindly ignore it. We the people own what we the people decide. And, there are significant consequences to these decisions, whether you are on the field and in the game, or in the stands watching and cheering … or choose to sit it out. Best to at least be in the stadium, even better to be in the game.
Therefore, you really need to begin thinking in terms of what the Political Parties stand for before voting. We all want to elect the “best candidate”, but If you are looking to preserve your freedoms and liberties and reduce the cost of government, or if you don’t believe that government is the answer to all our problems, yet you vote for a candidate with a different agenda because you somehow think they are the “best”, you have either supported the wrong principles or the wrong candidate. How about putting an end to voter malpractice?
If you want to learn more about the Parties, there are Town Committees that meet regularly and support their Party’s candidates. If you are interested in learning more about the Republican candidates – and meeting them in informal settings, please contact me.
I expect that some Unenrolled voters will be ready to assert the nobility of being independent. I look forward to hearing from you, just as I am eager to hear from those who have suffered voter’s remorse from naively supporting the wrong candidates, as well as from those who are just not interested in politics or politicians.
Perhaps we will all learn something from this.
Csharris
5:30 pm on Tuesday, July 10, 2012
Jim
I changed my political affiliation from republican to unenrolled for a couple of reasons.
1. I got real tired of local Westboro party extremists particularly from the republican side. I'd love to name a few but I will refrain from that.
2. John McCain and Sarah Palin...give me a break.
I plan to remain unenrolled at least until the republican party particularly on the local and state level get there collective acts together.
Jim Hatherley
8:07 pm on Tuesday, July 10, 2012
Thanks for your response, CsHarris. I actually understand what you are saying. However, instead of becoming Unenrolled, I decided to join the Republican Party 3 years ago to see if I could do something to help reverse the direction of the Party and the Country. For me, at least, this has been a very good thing because I have become active and involved (in the game) instead of angry and at home (sitting it out) - including writing a blog to hopefully reach people like you and ask that you not just hang in there, but get back into the play. We need everyone we can get to get the Country back on track. If you are interested in dipping your toe back into the water, give me a call. BTW, I agree with you about McCain (awful) and Palin (not qualified). We need a higher standard, both in Washington and Boston. Thanks again for responding and hopefully I will hear from you.
David Nolta
10:37 pm on Tuesday, July 10, 2012
Excuse me, Jim, but Palin was not merely unqualified. She was and is also awful.
Gary Kelley
5:30 pm on Tuesday, July 10, 2012
Jim, my own view is I don't need to "blindly" associate with a given party, and so remain independent. I'm comfortable saying I voted for Scott Brown, and then promptly supported Martha Coakley in her Attorney General re-election. For me, it's about the best person for the role.
Suggesting voting on the “best person” is too simplistic and naïve is rather insulting to the very notion of democracy. The US currently essentially has a two party system...not two party rule.
Jim Hatherley
8:07 pm on Tuesday, July 10, 2012
Thanks, Gary, and I get this. However, sticking with the State Government for a minute, only 10% of the Senate is Republican; 20% of the House and 0% of the Executive Branch. We need to be voting for more Republicans to force roll call votes, to bring greater balance and accountability to Massachusetts government. To that end, you make "like" Carolyn Dykema, but I hope you plan to vote for Marty Lamb or Steve Levy (depending on your precinct) because we need to broaden the Republican base in Boston.
Jim Rizoli
8:43 am on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
Dem, Rep, ...Like it makes a difference! Different suit same problems.
The same small group controls them all. It's taken me a long time to see it but my eyes have been opened.
Jim@ccfiile
Jim Hatherley
9:44 am on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
Thanks, Jim, and I have to say that i share your frustration. Many people tell me they are fed up with politicians, so they have given up on the process. But, as the blog says, whether you are in the game or choose to sit it out, the beat goes on. My advice is to look at the fundemental tenets of the Parties. If you like the way Massachusetts and the US are heading, vote for the Democrat candidates and keep it going. Conversely, if you think the Country and the State need to do better or change direction, vote for Republican candidates - even if you think you "like" a particular "D" candidate. I hope that since your eyes have been opened you will be able to see the difference between the Party philosophies more clearly. All the best.
Amy Buttiglieri
8:43 am on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
Good article, Jim. I was Independent for many years. Switched to Republican a few years ago because I was disappointed in/frustrated with the Democratic party to the point I felt I had to take a stand.
I wonder if there's a 4th category for the Unenrolled: worried. Worried that if you join 1 party you'll alienate friends, get more phone calls asking for money, find there are candidates you don't like & have folks tell you "s/he's YOUR party".
But...now that I'm more involved through the Wbro Rep Town Committee, I know more about the focus of the party I've chosen. It's actually comforting to have discussions with people and not worry about "stepping on toes". And to know I'm not alone in my views. Getting involved has given me the opportunity to actually talk with reps & candidates to understand their views and goals - so now I can better support them...or tell them why I disagree & have a discussion with them about it.
I'm assuming that whether D or R, the Town Committees have the same goals: encourage discourse, focus on today and the future of our state/country, and welcome anyone who wants to learn about our government. I would encourage folks "in the middle" to dip their toes into the water - I'm glad I did.
Jim Hatherley
9:44 am on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
Amy, good advice to get involved and feel you are advancing the discussion than to sit on the sidelines and just be "worried". I hope more Unenrolled voters take it and contact me to learn moe about the Republican candidates. Thanks for this imput.
Ed Bertorelli
8:43 am on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
I think the expansion of the ' unenrolled ' voters is a sign of the weakening of the power of state Democrats. But first a clarification: for decades voters who did not enroll in a party were called 'Independents'- a much more accurate title in my book. But then along came the "Independent" party and the Sec of State renamed unpartied voters as unenrolled . I've been an active Republican since 1966 and the recent growth/recovery of the state Republican Party has a lot to do with unenrolled voters picking and choosing among candidates. I have no problem with voters telling me they are not linked to either party I also think a major attraction for voters is that unenrolled voters can vote in either the Republican or Democrat Party Primaries-sometimes the primary is just as important as the general election.
Jim Hatherley
9:44 am on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
Ed, thanks for your comments and I agree that being an Unenrolled voter gets you into the Primary of your choice. In some States this is actually disruptive because elections can literally be sabotaged by Independents who actively conspire to derail the better candidate from competing in the general election. However, for the most part, Unenrolled voters do not vote in the primaries. And, i agree that the growth in Unenrolled is a reflection of the growing wariness people have with the Democrat Party. I hope it is an interim step (as Amy reflected above) to moving to the Republican side of the aisle. Make sure your Republican friends are as ready to participate in the upcoming elections as you are - we need all voters on deck to be successful. Hopefully you saw my earlier blog listing the 10 reasons why Romney (and Brown) will win in Massachusetts.
Dr. Brian Russell DM
8:43 am on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
I don’t think the old 2 party system fits todays environment
Im not a republican and im not a democrat, I used to say I was independent then someone turned that into a party that I don’t 100% agree with.
Needless to say, I want the right to vote for whom I feel is best, not because they are a member of a party. Today that’s a huge issue and I really feel it gets in the way of anyone wanting to vote for the best candidate
You get a ballot, EVERYONE should be on it, not just party X or Party Y.
So needless to say when I vote I get in line, enroll get a ballot, vote and un-enroll. Foolish and wasteful? Yep, Outdated yes.
The right to vote means just that, the right to vote, it doesn’t say the right to vote Republican or demarcate only.
Jim Hatherley
9:44 am on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
Thank you Dr. Russell - and you frame the issue quite well when the so-called "best candidate" is in the Party speeding down the road in the wrong direction. But, that's why we need to educate voters to refrain from "voter malpractice" by matching their expectations of government with the candidate most likely to deliver what they prefer. Too many times there is a mismatch. Perhaps you will wannt to visit with the Republican Town Committee. Thanks again.
David Nolta
10:13 am on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
This article seems more than a little bit disingenuous. Under the guise of asking for "help" and "understanding", and in the same breath with which it bewails the negativity of political campaigning, it virtually amounts to a Republican advertisement attacking Elizabeth Warren (and not very wholeheartedly or convincingly poking at Scott Brown for acting a little too much like a Democrat). So we have a soft-spoken but essentially traditional example of party politicking as usual. For being soft spoken, I thank the writer. But for basically trying to sell the same-old same-old, I am disappointed. After everything, it is still a good idea to vote for the individual--even if you like more than one (I happen to like both Scott Brown and Elizabeth Warren--whatever the party line is on either of them). And just to provide a bit of balance to this deceptively partisan essay: has the Republican Party, which took us into two wars in the past ten years while simultaneously reducing taxes on the very rich, which ruined the economy, which fixates on non-issues like same-sex marriage as a way of keeping the country divided--is that Republican Party really one that represents the principles and goals of most hard-working, right-minded Americans?
Jim Hatherley
2:05 pm on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
David, thanks for your post. i can assure you that this blog is not disingenuous because I am named, photographed and identified as the Chair of the Republican Town Committee. As such, I clearly have a point of view and the courage to present it. But you bring up a fair point - there are warts on both parties, mainly because managing a Country of over 300M people, with so many issues and within a global context is complicated and difficult. However, there is among the people a sense of the direction the Country is taking - a favorite question of pollsters from as far back as I can remember. It is my opinion that the Country is on the wrong track. By the way, I believe that the Republican Party does better represent the principles and goals of most hard working, tax paying, right-minded Americans - but you have doubtless seen this message consistently said in prior blogs.
And, thank you for commenting on my approach. I do appreciate that very much.
David Nolta
2:59 pm on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
Just to be doubly clear, Jim: I don't think you or your blog are disingenuous, I only think that this particular article, which limits unenrolled voters to one of three categories ("noble, naive, or not interested"), and opens with a request for help or understanding, goes on to be much more partisan than seems necessary, or than I for one anticipated. But you have a nice tone, and I like your basic calm, articulate approach!
Live and In Color
9:49 pm on Sunday, July 15, 2012
You know what reducing taxes on the rich does, creates jobs. Raise their taxes and the first move is layoffs. Getting another couple billion out of the 1% won't do a thing to the handout society gone unchecked for the last 25 years, other than cost the people working their jobs. We should take the right to vote away from anyone on continuous govt assistance, since no politician would campaign on it, the problem would fix itself in 2 years.
Kim Poness
11:22 am on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
@David - I was trying to figure out how to respond, or even if this "article" warranted a response. As usual, you echoed my sentiments beautifully. I'm an unenrolled voter, and I'm neither noble, naive, disinterested, or lazy. I have many Republican friends who routinely (although I've politely asked them not to) forward me what I can only term as propaganda, laced with half truths and scare tactics (I research most, but not all of their claims, and the sources they came from). There are certain ideals held by the Republican Party that I absolutely cannot align myself with in good conscience. There are certain ideals held by the Democratic Party that I disagree with, though much less so. I consider myself to be fiscally conservative and socially liberal, and honestly do vote for the person I think will do the best job.
David Nolta
3:00 pm on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
Boy we have a lot in common, Kim, which makes ME proud!
UglyHat
10:45 am on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
I think this topic parallels the ratings problems the major TV networks have had over the past decade or two. When there were only a few choices the networks were free to force-feed us content. We watched what was on TV because it was on TV. As the number of networks grew and the content varied wildly people discovered that the big three just don’t fit their needs.
We are individuals. There is no way 2 political parties will ever represent the feelings, needs and desires of hundreds of millions of people ever again. The parties are still very powerful as are the three big networks but none will ever have the ratings (enrollment) that they had before.
Perhaps they should do what the big networks did and start creating focused versions of themselves to serve those who share some of their views (TLC, Food Network, etc). Perhaps they already are. The TEA Party is a grassroots organization that believes in small government and lower taxes. The Republican Party claims to share these virtues and supports some TEA Party candidates.
Could the Democrats woo unenrolled voters who share their desire to cut military spending but don’t agree with hard-line democrats on much else? Are there democrats that tend to side with republicans on religious topics?
We may not need 500 channels of political affiliation, but it would be nice to have a dozen or so.
Jim Hatherley
2:05 pm on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
Great point, Ugly Hat, and thanks for adding to the discussion. However, does this make you wonder if we the people were being spoon fed what the government wanted fed to us for all those years when there were only three networks? Maybe it was just easier to have less access to information - we could all be more blindly obedient. However, the Internet and Fox have changed all that forever.
David Nolta
3:01 pm on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
Now please don't jump on me, UglyHat, but I thought your comment was excellent, convincing, and thought-provoking.
UglyHat
3:10 pm on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
And I thought yours was funny David.
UglyHat
3:47 pm on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
Oh man, now you have me feeling self-conscious David. What I meant to say was I thought it was funny the way you preceded your compliment. I did not mean to say your other comments were funny, I did not mean it in a negative way at all. And thank you, by the way.
David Nolta
10:40 pm on Thursday, July 12, 2012
Yes, UglyHat, I tend to generate self-consciousness. But what can I do? We all have our powers, and faults, that make us who we are. And for the record, I understand and support your use of a pseudonym, as I have explained in other contexts.
Chris L.
11:22 am on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
In my case, I've wavered over the years based on where I am in life.
As an 18 year old sailor, fresh out of high school, serving in peacetime, Republican was the way to go. National Defense spending, taking care of the troops, all of that.
As a 30 year old, fresh out of the military on partial disability, I needed somewhat of a boost in life, since we know that the response to veterans returning to the workforce was somewhat of a new concept as little as 5 years ago, so I went Democrat.
Now, at 35, I've dragged myself back up, I'm 3/4 of the way done with my Bachelor's degree, I'm house-shopping with my VA home loan, and I am unmarried, with a salary just under 6 figures.
I have none of the "white guilt" many in MA experience. I risked my life for 12 years, then used the programs available to me to make the best of my own life. Now I am looking for someone to protect my paycheck, and not take more and more of it to help those who refuse to help themselves.
Helping the less fortunate is one thing, and I am sympathetic to the disabled. But if you are out of work because certain jobs are beneath you, then that is a personal choice you should face consequences for, not one that I should have to finance.
Jim Hatherley
2:05 pm on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
What a very valuable post, Chris, thank you for what you have done, and congratulations for what you are doing. I certainly agree that you go through political changes in your life. Winston Churchill once said that if you are not a liberal when you are 20 you have no heart, but if you are not conservative when you are 40, you have no brain. People evolve, but so does the Country. In 1960, John F. Kennedy urged "his fellow Americans, not to a ask what your Country can do for you; ask what you can do for your Country." Is that where the Democrat Party is today?
Christian Ollenborger
11:22 am on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
Great Article Jim, I too was unenrolled and didn't like the Republican party in the past but registered as an R and have been working to make this party more how I think it should be.
C.Olle
Jim Hatherley
2:05 pm on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
Thank you Christian. What, and where, have you been doing to make the Republican Party more like you think it should be. I think that some of the Unenrolled voters would benefit from learning what you are doing.
Jim Rizoli
4:28 pm on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
Sorry to say...... you're in a dream world. Both parties have been compromised and it matters not, which one gets in.
They all answer to the same people who run the show, which is Congress who only cares about them getting themselves reelected, and are controlled by AIPAC.
So what it comes down to is, what suit do you want in this time.
Same problems, same merry go round.
Ron Paul had the best ideas (not perfect) but better than the rest.
He didn't make it and that shows how bad off the country is.
We're doomed get used to it. As the Titanic is sinking the people are more concerned about the music being played on the top deck.
Time to make sure your life boat is ready.
Jim@ccfiile.com
.
Jim Hatherley
5:30 pm on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
Jim, thank you (again)but ... yikes! We have been at this place before - as in 1980, and prior to that during the Nixon era. Frustrating as it is to you - and to me as well - we have to believe that by dumping Incumbents and insisting on more and better from their replacements, we can turn things around. Say what there is to be said about the TEA Party, they have made a big impact in a little amount of time. Still, that does not answer the question, "Why is McGovern running unopposed?" He is part of the problem - but the money required to run is another serious pollutant.
despite all of that, i stand by what I have written - pay attention to the Parties, and be far more insistent that the people who get elected do what they say they will do - or dump them.
BTW, Ron Paul does have some very good ideas. Hopefully they will be reborn by his son next time around.
Jim Hatherley
4:28 pm on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
David, I wish I could have inserted this below your earlier comment. Thanks again - and I get what you are saying - good one. I began the piece by mentioning how "emotional" (indignant?) some Unenrolled voters become when they need to tell me that they are Unenrolled, hence a bit superior than those who affiliate with a Party. It's pretty humorous from my perspective, hence the opportunity to apply a little political satire into the mix. And that is where the title comes from. These people totally believe that what they are doing is very noble, while I believe, due to the Party System in play, that they are more naive than noble, at least until we can get term limits. That notwithstanding, my experience, and voter turnout suggests that most Unenrolled voters just are not interested in politics, as if what government does does not apply to them, and if it does, it's not their fault. Go figure.
Kim Poness
5:30 pm on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
@Jim - no matter how eloquently you phrase it (which you have), I will still argue that I am not naive, I am not "those people", and I am not uninterested in politics. Some of us really are firmly entrenched in the middle, and simply do not want to be forced to vote one way or the other (I'm speaking primaries). I agree with UglyHat in that two political parties just doesn't cut it for a good number of us.
Jim Hatherley
8:38 am on Thursday, July 12, 2012
Thank you Kim. As I said in the blog I was hoping to learn something from the comments, and I think we are all benefiting from these well-said comments. I only suggest that you look back at the candidates for whom you have voted and ask yourself if they are steering the State or the Nation in the way you see best. If yes, you are good; if not, then ask yourself if a good "sounding" candidate was co-opted by their Party after they were elected.
Jim Rizoli
7:03 pm on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
Two, Three, Four political parties.....don't matter, money runs the show. If you have the money behind you you can do miracles.
When you have money as the deciding factor in elections things will never get done to benefit the people. It will benefit those who contribute the big money, but to help the little guy NO WAY!
Too many special interest people with lots of money to throw around,and the little people suffer. I'm surprised smart people like you don't get it, but then again there are a lot of "smart" people running our govt. and they don't get it either.
Sad to say, some of you are dreaming. Dreams are good until you have to wake up...... then the real nightmare begins.
Jim@ccfiile.com
Jim Hatherley
8:38 am on Thursday, July 12, 2012
You know, Jim, I cannot see how anyone could disagree with this. In fact, the money issue has become one of the major negative changes that I have seen in the past years. Even today you have seen the quarterly money raising statistics for the Presidential and Senatorial candidates. The worst is President Obama who wants to tax the so-called wealthy and have everyone pay their fair share, while holding fund raisers at $40,000 per seat. Are you kidding me? Who has that kind of money to spend on a 2 hour political event unless they expected to get a return on their "investment." Call it what you will, but I call it corruption, even if the Press wants to sweet talk it as crony capitalism.
Please!
We need to see stories that end with politicians being led into police cars in cuffs from their corruption. We need term limits. And, we need more intelligent voters holding the politicians more accountable before the Nation is totally bankrupt and there is nothing left for our children and grandchildren.
Thanks for adding to the discussion.
David Nolta
9:22 am on Thursday, July 12, 2012
So I guess Romney's $50,000 per plate fundraisers show us his sensitivity to the working classes? And what is this "so-called wealthy"? That one percent really is out there, and a shame to the nation they exploit. No, say what you will about party politics, every day proves that President Obama is rare among today's politicians for his lack of corruption, and for the way he continues to fight for the working middle classes of America. And it is above all in this respect that Romney isn't worthy to clean his boots.
Stephen Pohl
8:38 am on Thursday, July 12, 2012
@Jim, yes, money runs the show... speaking of which, on Monday Mitt Romney said that his offshore investments were managed by a blind trust and he had no knowledge of their whereabouts. "I don’t manage them," he said in an interview with Radio Iowa's O. Kay Henderson. "I don’t even know where they are."
So, it occurs to me, who doesn't keep track of their money? ...and who would want a president who doesn't keep track of the countries finances?
Tom Lupien
9:10 am on Thursday, July 12, 2012
Stephen, he also commented in 94 that you can give a blind trust rules that they have to follow. What and what not to do with the money. But that's about par for the course for him.
Jim Hatherley
9:29 am on Thursday, July 12, 2012
Thank you, Stephen. I do not want to get off topic here (this blog is about Unenrolled voters), but the Romney money thing is somewhat amusing. To my recall, evey President is the past (back as far as JFK to my memory) has had their assets placed into a blind trust so as not to create a conflict of interest to where appropriations are made. You can imagine the outrage that would follow that Obama was a major share holder in Solyndra. So, Romney's money being in a blind trust, managed by others, is not breaking news. The other end of it is that most of us with 401K plans have money that is invested in what some people would argue are politically sensitive areas.
THe bottom line is that I have to respectfully reject the premise of your post in suggesting that Romney is somehow financially incapable. Do you really believe that, even for a moment?
The issue about money is the constant need to ask for donations, and the candidate's claims to want to help the "middle class" while pandering to the money crowd for big time cash, and the promise of payback ... and for what - so we can all be exposed to an increasing number of misleading ads that are not worthy of the people they attempt to deceive? Thanks for posting in.
Tom Lupien
11:29 am on Thursday, July 12, 2012
Jim the real problem with Romney here is that he compleatly changes his stance on things based on who's asking the question and who will benefit or loose because of the answer. If it's him with off shore investments and caymans accounts it's because it's a blind trust and he doesn't control that. If it's someone else that has this issue come up, his response is. That you have some control over where you want your money to go. He's all just BS. Right now he's a moderate Republican that is trying to Pander to the Far Right. If the wind changes so will he.
Jim Hatherley
11:48 am on Thursday, July 12, 2012
Tom, thank you for this, but this blog is not about Romney, it is about Unenrolled voters. But, you are clearly not a Romney fan, i get that. But before you go down that lonesome road of saying the ever trite "he changes his mind," don't you think you ought to consider the same thing about what President Obama has said, then unsaid? Can you really trust someone who has intentionally misled Congress, hence America? Can you trust someone who supersedes Congressional authority one day regarding illegals, then nullifies the Supreme Court ruling regarding illegals the next? So, if you want to go negative and reference all the BS, I think you need a bigger popper scooper.
By the way, in terms of messaging, did you happen to see Romney at the NAACP convention yesterday - tough crowd/same message. He did not attempt to pander with a phony Southern accent/idioms (like Hillary Clinton), nor change his voice cadence to that of a preacher (Obama) either. He got booed for frankness; praised for showing up and not pandering. Obama took a pass.
So, let's get back on track. If you really are an Unenrolled voter, do you have a sense of nobility, naiveté, or non interest? All the best.
David Nolta
12:22 pm on Thursday, July 12, 2012
You see, Jim--that's what seems unnecessary and deceptive. You say--from your very first post--that you're talking about unenrolled voters, but you constantly--since your very first post--insist on attacking Democrats. We all get it--you want to increase the card-carrying membership of the Republican party. That really IS your sole objective here, so why not just say so? You laid that track, and it's natural that people who disagree with you will say so--and that doesn't mean that they're the ones getting off track. If you see my point.
Jim Hatherley
4:51 pm on Thursday, July 12, 2012
David, I am enjoying your comments. Yes, i am the Chair of the Westborough Republican Town Committee, AND identified as such, so there is no attempt to deceive anyone about who and what I am.
This blog, however, does ask the 51% of Massachusetts voters who are so-called Unenrolled why they straddle the political fence. As you might already know, only 11-12% of the registered voters are Republican, so there are over 4 times as many "Independents" as Republicans and 3 times as many Democrats. With a minority so small we need to president views to people that they may not have taken the time to hear before - especially if they think that being on the sidelines somehow creates a sense of personal immunity from what is going on in America and the World.
One other point regarding the on point/off point issue. I have seen many blogs that are taken off track and never return to the main point. Ultimately the posts resort to name calling or insults and the moment is lost. Frankly, i put too much time and thought into what I produce to allow this to happen if I can help it. I hope you understand that point too. Keep posting.
Kim Poness
5:26 pm on Thursday, July 12, 2012
@Jim - I still don't understand this thought "especially if they think that being on the sidelines somehow creates a sense of personal immunity from what is going on in America and the World." Are you understanding that some people really are smack dab in the middle?
Jim Hatherley
9:47 pm on Thursday, July 12, 2012
Kim, thanks ... and if you feel that being in the middle is the best place, fine with me - that's what I was asking. Do you feel that this is a noble position? However, being "in the middle" means - to me - that you have not made up your mind if having more government is a better thing for Americans, than more individual liberty. In my mind that is what the upcoming election is all about. Thanks for the clarification.
David Nolta
10:22 pm on Thursday, July 12, 2012
And what is this "nobility" you keep referring to? You should probably define that term, as it's caused a lot of confusion here. Yes, Jim, I get it, you're selling the Republican Party. But I still don't get why you keep pretending that that's not what you're doing here. And why do you feel so comfortable telling Kim or anybody else that you interpret her moderate, middle-of-the-spectrum stance, as being indecisive? And you're STILL trying to frame the whole discussion yourself--you get to describe YOUR view (not accurate, to my mind) of what the Democrats represent, and then you offer YOUR view of what the Republicans represent. That's not fair, in a debate that you yourself started with requests for enlightenment...
Kim Poness
11:11 am on Friday, July 13, 2012
@Jim - I don't think of my unenrolled status as noble. Then again, I don't think it's NOT noble, either. It's just my stance. And if you choose to view a moderate position as indecisive, certainly that's your perogative. It's wrong, but it's your perogative to be wrong. What it means to me is that I agree with neither party wholeheartedly. There are tenets within each party that I very strongly disagree with. It's not as black and white as "more government vs individual liberty", and I'm a little shocked that you would think it's that simple.
UglyHat
11:44 am on Friday, July 13, 2012
I agree with you Kim.
Jim H., the reason I don’t enroll as one or the other is that both parties allow for the extremes (probably for the money). As I am not an extremist in either direction, I choose not to associate with people or parties that are.
I don’t know if it was purposeful, but I love your paraphrase of ‘Freewill’ (in another comment). “If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice”. Rush, 1980.
I have made a choice, and it is to remain unaffiliated with the extreme left and extreme right. I’m comfortable with the moderates.
Jim Rizoli
5:26 pm on Thursday, July 12, 2012
For the record I was a Republican but went the unerolled route.
When I ran for public office I saw a side of the Republicans that wasn't too pleasant.
Like I mentioned before....different suit same antics.
Some might think being unenrolled gives you an advantage to be more open minded about the candidates...I say no big deal.
When there are only two parties you might as well flip a coin.
Jim@ccfiile.com
Jim Hatherley
9:47 pm on Thursday, July 12, 2012
Thanks (again) but I have to say that in all my years of watching politics I have never seen clearer distinctions between the Parties, and the Party leaders. Many years ago I wondered about the differences in the candidates and did vote for my favorite. Now, however, the polarization is so real that Democrats cannot be confused with Republicans (for reasons already cited in previous responses. All the best.
Rob Penzke
9:47 pm on Thursday, July 12, 2012
On the money!! The 2 party system doesn't work anymore. They both have sold America out. We need people that actually care as to what happens to our nation and not their party loyalties.
David Nolta
10:16 pm on Thursday, July 12, 2012
Rob, I don't THINK that is what Jim is saying. Jim, am I wrong?? Are you saying that the two-party system isn't working?? Aside from saying "Join the Republican Party," are you saying that the two-party system isn't working? A lot of people seem to think that's what you're saying. I don't think that's what you're saying. I think you're saying "Join the Republican Party". And I think the Republican Party is largely responsible for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the ruin of the American economy, the growing rift between the super-rich (yep, they really exist) and the working class, the divisive, misogynistic, cynical, pseudo-morality of the anti-Obama extremists, the ongoing, shameless, treacherous (as in treasonous) ambition to paralyze the Federal Government at all costs. Anyway, that's what I'm seeing here.
Kim Poness
9:47 pm on Thursday, July 12, 2012
@Jim Rizoli - just to be clear, I was question the OTHER Jim :)
Kim Poness
9:47 pm on Thursday, July 12, 2012
Oops - I meant "questionING"
Jim Rizoli
9:33 am on Friday, July 13, 2012
Kim, I know.
Jim@ccfiile.com
Jim Hatherley
9:33 am on Friday, July 13, 2012
David, thanks for the note but why do I feel that it is like deja vu all over again, and again - especially this time with such an impressive disconnected diatribe? Very impressive.
As to the 2 party system, you have to look at the State and the Nation. In Massachusetts the two party system is largely broken, and has been for over 60 years. Across the Country the faces of the MA liberals, and the ridiculous politics of Massachusetts are the laughing stock of America. Just travel a bit and hear for yourself. Mass. is a political wasteland and it is embarassing.
Nationally the two party system is not working because the Country has become so polarized. I covered this last week in my blog ("Do You Really Want Extreme Transformation?"). This is why the upcoming election is so significant. And, here's an update with information released just this morning. Since Obama became President it now takes six months to pay for the cost of government ... and climbing. If tis is what you want, do the Massachusetts thing and vote Democrat (again and again).
David Nolta
10:24 am on Friday, July 13, 2012
It's funny--I have that same feeling of deja-vu with your posts! So at least we have that in common! I DO travel--you ought not to assume that I don't--and most people, in the US and abroad, actually ENVY me for living in Massachusetts! YES, I'm sorry-- but the Commonwealth has a great reputation abroad--for, among other qualities, its highly educated citizens, for its protection of the environment, for its schools and libraries and the quality of its health care and the professionalism of its police and fire departments, etc. And admit it or not--it is our political system that provides and sustains these great institutions! And one more thing we might agree on--I DO miss the financial acumen and accomplishments of Bill Clinton--the last President of the US to really understand finance, and the last President to successfully manage the budget and the deficit--and he did it all without cutting off the schools and the poor and the elderly...
Concerned Citizen
9:33 am on Friday, July 13, 2012
9-11 was largely responsible for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Barney Frank and Chris Dodd are largely responsible for the ruin of the American economy.
President Obama, whom Marco Rubio described as "divisive by design," is largely responsible for the growing rift between the rich and working class as he (Obama) constantly bashes the successful members of our society, while encouraging the poor to be mediocre, instead of creating good paying jobs for them. Most poor people want a job, not food stamps.
Jim Hatherley
10:11 am on Friday, July 13, 2012
Thanks for your comment, Concerned Citizen. Let me see if I can tie this together within the framework of the original blog. Your view is 180' different from the one posited above, and reflects the polarization of the Parties in the United States right now. This is where all these Unenrolled/Independent voters come into the picture, because the election is about the future of America. Do the Unenrolled voters see the Country on the right course - or is the Country careening down the wrong track? No straddling now - it's one way or the other, and the result will impact the futures of our children, grandchildren, and future generations.
David Nolta
10:15 am on Friday, July 13, 2012
Successful members of society??? Are you talking about the Wall Street moguls? Or the corporate giants who sent and continue to send American jobs overseas? And when you say that "9-11 was largely responsible for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan," it's as though you've been asleep since 9-11. The war in Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11. Please stop perpetuating that long-disproven lie, the source of which is the Bush government, led by the treasonous Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, and Karl Rove.
David Nolta
2:13 pm on Friday, July 13, 2012
And what is this "no straddling" rule? And this "one track" analogy? There are as many tracks as there are people, aren't there? And so we move together, here a little forward, there a step to the side, even occasionally a step back (I'm thinking of Prohibition!). But generally speaking, this country moves forward, and defines progress for the rest of the human world.
David Nolta
11:36 am on Friday, July 13, 2012
Oh Jim, if you find my posts aggressive, I am flattered that you read them. I am afraid that this is the first of your blogs that I have read, and it (not you, necessarily, but it--you see, I have no need or desire to characterize YOU from one or two things you have written)--your essay--seems to me an illustration of the term "passive-aggressive"--and there it is your writing that is doing the straddling. You may work hard to disengage from "this kind of dialogue", but you initiated and have taken a very energetic part in it. Though I know that I'm naive in many ways, as far as I'm concerned, you don't need Gallup to justify asking any question you like. But Gallup or not, I think the question, "right track-wrong track," is absurd, unnecessary, and very limiting--above all, it limits the choices--the scope--of those being asked. I like many things about the direction this country is taking (we have serious hope for some form of universal health care, we are slowly removing ourselves from Iraq and Afghanistan, we repealed "don't ask, don't tell", etc.), but there are many things I don't like. I DO like that we can continue to vote for individuals regardless of party--and you haven't convinced me at all that such freedom amounts to nobility, naivete, or indifference. But then, you were only asking for help, right? I hope you got it. I know I learned something, for which I thank you. And by the way, there is ALWAYS an in-between, and it's usually the better place to be.
David Nolta
12:49 am on Saturday, July 14, 2012
The above was in response to Jim's post, now apparently removed, which opened as follows:
Jim Hatherley
11:11 am on Friday, July 13, 2012
"Forgive me, David, but your posts have become increasingly aggressive, both here and on the Elizabeth Warren string. I purposely work hard to disengage from this kind of dialogue. I will provide this final response to you, as if you are really as naive as your questions suggest (since you are a Democrat, not an Independent as noted from a post you made in another blog). Gallup has been asking the right track/wrong track question for 50 years - and this is where the no more straddling point enters the picture. If you like the way the Country (and this State) are going, relax, you have what you want."
John
9:55 pm on Saturday, July 14, 2012
Hey Dave - what has Obama done with the deficit?
David Nolta
11:04 pm on Saturday, July 14, 2012
Johnny--He's working on it! But he's no Clinton, that I will admit!
Christopher Fields
12:15 pm on Friday, July 13, 2012
now back to the question of the blog....
to paraphrase Groucho Marx "I don't want to belong to any "Party" that would accept me as a member"
I'm unenrolled and have been for most if not all of my voting life. one reason is in the primaries I can pick the ballot that has more than one person to vote for.
I'm a true believer in a balance government, meaning I like an even amount of DEMs & GOPs in office. It seems more gets done for the greater good of all.
this does not mean I vote to make it even but I take my time to understand who I can vote for and then I vote for the one I fell will work across party lines.
if that makes me "Noble, Naïve or Not Interested" so be it....but in my mind and my heart I know I took the time to learn about all the people that wants to be elected.
I vote, its my right and its my right to do it my way !
David Nolta
1:57 pm on Friday, July 13, 2012
Amen, Christopher!!!
Jim Hatherley
12:48 pm on Friday, July 13, 2012
Thank you for getting this back on track, Christopher. Perhaps this just makes you knowledgable. Since you are seeking a balance in government, you probably share many of my frustrations as a Massachusetts voter.
Christopher Fields
4:33 pm on Friday, July 13, 2012
Jim, I wouldn't say its "frustration"....I would say its more like "annoyed" :')
I've never kept a tally of how I've voted but I'd say I've been somewhat even on my votes maybe a slightly to the left....I'm sure I keep people guessing what side I support with the fact I'm a long time NASCAR fan (go Dale Jr !) and a old Deadhead hippy, get lots of weird looks while at a race in Talladega wearing a tie-die Dead shirt.
Mass seems to be slowly becoming balanced (at least it seems to be going that way if you believe the talking heads on TV & on-line)
the Fed gov is just stuck, no one seems to want to bend be they a DEM or GOP, if things stay the same or change at the top (oval office) I fear we will still be stuck going nowhere...if things stay the same will we get 30+ more votes to repeal the ACA or if things change will we get 30+ votes to reenact it after it get repealed ? ....all the while debates/votes on bills/laws that might chip away at the problems we have sit idle
but all I can do is study and then VOTE ! then see where it goes from there....
Joe Rizoli
4:33 pm on Friday, July 13, 2012
My two cents, but an observation that is not going to be liked here but it proves my point about how the Political process is totally controlled by outside forces not even associated here in the USA. When Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu came to give a talk at Congress he got 29 standing ovations.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/05/israeli-prime-minister-gets-20-standing-ovations-in-congress-sends-message-to-white-house/
ALL as far as I know Republicans and Democrats, bowed to this person, it was almost Godlike.
Anyone who runs for office if he doesn't kowtow for this cause will NOT be elected. Our political process has been compromised, it is gone. No matter who you vote for. Our country is run by people who HAVE to bend to a political power outside our country. Shame on the republicans and the Democrats.
Ron Paul was the only one who stands up for the ideals and wishes for America. Whether he stood at this ovation boondoggle embarrassment is not known by me.
One thing is for sure America is run by people who don't put America First that includes Republicans and Democrats.
http://uspolitics.tribe.net/thread/9c1a0593-92fb-4f66-ba96-8c5486bbcd6c
My two cents, please no personal attacks here. Prove me wrong and not the stupid character assassinations that comes with putting up the truth.
Joe Rizoli
Jim Hatherley
11:26 am on Saturday, July 14, 2012
Jim, is this the same Prime Minister that Obama ignored, then treated rudely, then insulted in a live-mic moment with Sarkozy? That is the embarrassment, not the response by Congress to an ally.
But let me get to your larger point, on which I agree. Pandering to "victim's groups" - and even creating new victim's groups - is a specialty of the Democrats. I was proud that Romney did not stoop to that at the NAACP this week, and I hope he continues to do this vs. by executive order that usurps Congressional authority, excludes a group of illegals from deportation, or eliminates work requirements from welfare recipients?
And i also agree with you about Ron Paul's candor and ideas. I only wish that he was a different messenger, and further hope that his son picks up the baton.
And, i also agree with you that it is long past time to elect Americans who place America first, last and only. Thanks for your posts.
David Nolta
12:26 am on Saturday, July 14, 2012
Joe, contrary to your claim, your observation does not prove anything. But now I confess I am curious as to whether or not Ron Paul stood up for Netanyahu, since you admit you don't know if he did or not, and you attach so much importance to whether he did or not. Though I myself do not see any of this as being particularly significant in any way, nor seriously related to the topic of Jim's original post.
Tony D
4:33 pm on Friday, July 13, 2012
i am anti abortion, anti capital punishment, pro gay rights and marriage, fiscal conservative... where exactly do i belong if not independent? i don't want to be identified with either one of these parties... they are both pandering to odd extremes... keep me out of that. to think that people fall into one of two categories is naive. i would be embarrassed to be associated with boehner or pelosi.
by the way patch you should bring back maryjo. i am one reader of many who has been shocked at the way this once great website has deteriorated without her.
Jim Hatherley
11:26 am on Saturday, July 14, 2012
Tony D, thanks for your post. I can see your point. The political manual does not have a specific place for a person with such diversified views. Still, on election day you can cast but one ballot for one candidate. Some times the "best" candidate is not the right candidate for getting the Country headed in the right direction - which is one of the primary points in the blog. In the end you have to decide - as I am sure that you do - which of your values is the dominant one. If being a fiscal conservative is your #1 priority, then you will likely hold your nose and vote Republican. If gay rights is your #1 value, you will likely go Democrat.
Believe it or not, I think this is the same position of many people, and certainly the Unenrolled voters.
As to Maryjo, I am also a fan.
David Nolta
11:47 am on Saturday, July 14, 2012
Jim, that really is low. And sad to say, a typical Republican ploy. The soft-spoken here really is only a thin veil for the old nasty. "Healthy economy = Republican. Gay rights = Democrat." First of all, it's a completely false dichotomy, existing only in the minds and desperate tactics of a few politicians--and small-minded political types. Didn't YOU know that there are many gay Republican politicians, and people with conservative economic views who support their rights? Read the posts on your own blog. And the last presidential balancer of the US budget was Bill Clinton--remember him? A Democrat. And Ronald Reagan before him raised taxes, and George Bush after him landed us in the depression we are still struggling out of today. I've read over these posts, and I am happy to see people resisting your pressure to be limited in their personal choices to vote for the best person, period. "Noble, naive, indifferent?"
None of the above, Jim.
Arthur Hawkins
11:26 am on Saturday, July 14, 2012
A blog, as I understand it, is an opportunity to elicit ideas and discourse on various issues and topics, and not necessarily to proselytize a particular point of view, though I suspect that is common and permissible. Your blogs, Jim, tend to do that.....elicit good thought. Your blogs are thoughtful, articulate and admittedly right leaning....and I trust, well researched and not 'spun'. This recent blog about the 'un-enrolled' whom you have characterized as either naive, noble, or uninterested, has spawned a goodly amount of "interested' discourse, some of which agreeing with your philosophies and wishes for the Republic and the state, and some of which have clearly differing points of view. (to be continued as it seems I have outrun the allowable characters)
Arthur Hawkins
11:26 am on Saturday, July 14, 2012
Your attempts, as I see them, however, at leading the discussion to where you want it to go....the impropriety of being un-enrolled, (or Independent as I would prefer,) has a tendency to corral the ideas to where you would like to see them, rather than let them be 'cage-free, to use the now vernacular best practice for husbandry. I have not sensed the vitriol, mean-spiritedness of other blogs where the hackers and malcontents spew their nonsense. You elicit for the most part..... ideas and opinions on both sides. That has to be a good thing. If we as a community and citizenry are to be trusted to make good and thoughtful decisions we need education, un-spun facts, and enlightened, altruistic and inward looking thinking, discussion, compromise, negotiation, and reasonableness, oft lacking in today's political parties.......on BOTH sides.
Let the ideas fly Jim, from whence they come and from whatever 'hot spot' you touch with your writing and intellect. You will then differ from the idealogues on both Fox and MSNBC and come to the table with questions and facts and opinions (not sledgehammers) and let folks think and react.......and maybe even join the Westborough Town Republican Committee....(psst..that was a joke). Keep writing Jim and invite us to the table. Best!
David Nolta
11:57 am on Saturday, July 14, 2012
Oh Arthur, I was willing to agree at first. The last crack about gays VERSUS the economy (that is virtually the false dialectic that Jim is setting up) completely blows the cover. This article and Jim's blogs are, as I say, admirably soft-spoken, but amount to little more than the usual negative campaigning, and as such, undermine--belie--the very open-mindedness they claim. Pressure is still pressure, and nastiness is still nastiness, even when you're whispering.
Jim Hatherley
9:55 pm on Saturday, July 14, 2012
Arthur, thank you for your eruditic post. Good job, and very good points. Let me add a few personal reflections regarding why I agreed to blog. Part of the reason is to be persuasive to people that the Republican values and principles of government are the better course for the Nation and the State. You cannot persuade people by being rude to them, or condescending in your presentation, or by offering untruths.
Believe it or not, I am not seeking people who agree with me. What's the point in that, unless they can add to the discussion. However, when readers take exception to my position they actually allow me the chance to politely dialoge with them, and in the process, allow the non participating readers the opportunity to see both sides of the debate. They ar the people I am really reaching - kind of like the part of the iceberg that you cannot see.
To the extent that I receive positive messages like yours, my sense is that I am succeeding, particularly in not going down the road of rude and insulting commentary that is frankly a turn off to me and probably to most - and discourages many people from participating. Thanks again - very well said.
SAT
9:55 pm on Saturday, July 14, 2012
Having read the posts above, I'd like to suggest a different perspective - namely, the view that "politics" is really about Government, and that "political parties" are really groups of individuals who have banded together to Govern in the manner they see fit.
In that context, there are only 3 choices: those who are currently governing ("the party in power") and their supporters; those who want to change things ("the parties out of power), and those who are content to accept the status quo.
That third category isn't Noble, Naive or Not Interested. They're just content with the Government they have, and see no need to change the way things are.
Jim Hatherley
9:55 pm on Saturday, July 14, 2012
David, your blogs are becoming increasingly less interesting, as if you feel the need to discourage other posted with your nonsense. I am hoping that you have the personal courage to put out your own blog and read how others react to your positions, you seen to have the time and ideology to do that. If not, then you need to confront the fact that you are too content to hide behind a rock and snipe at others who are actually putting some time and thought into their work product, and discourage those with significantly less confidence from weighing in. In short, you were interesting, you made a point, and now you have become redundant. Time to say good night.
John
11:15 am on Monday, July 16, 2012
The Republicans are so awful. They should be more like the Democrats. Lets see the Democrats have so many things to be proud of, like supporting the slave aristocracy and deciding to secede instead of giving up their slaves. Giving us Ted Kennedy, who got drunk and killed a young woman. Barney Frank, who was as responsible just as much as anyone for the 2008 Financial crisis ( oh and congradulations on marrying your new partner, who is 30 plus years younger than you are ) Finneran, Wilkerson, Dimasi, Turner, all Dems who are either in jail or going. A Democratic controlled Congress that refuses to pass a budget ( which is illegal ) and a president, who whined about the deficit - then went on to increase it by 8 trillion. Oh yeah, and if you like paying taxes, your gonna love the next 20 years - say hello to Obamacare, and remember the sweet words of Wonderful Debbie Wasserman Schultz "its not a tax" !!!
Jim Hatherley
12:12 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
John, thanks for this but if I were a teacher assigning a grade to your comment it would have to be an Incomplete. But you know that, and are doubtless ready to reload at a moment's notice. However, this is a blog about Unenrolled voters. Given all that you have cited, and everything else that is known, why are Unenrolled voters the majority, and why do so many of them persist in keeping Democrats in power, especially when so many "vote for the best candidate?" Thanks again.
Joe Rizoli
12:52 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
Our nation is heading for a swift ending no matter who is in office. The Constitution is usless because the people like the Barney Franks and other nincompoops who run the country have not been the noble characters of ethics or morality.
When a country is run by people like this the end result is other problems happen being, the moral code is broken and things such as illegal immigration, fraud, illicit drug use, parental disrespect and other problems to numerous to mention infect the country.
The Politicians for the most part have set a bad example, the sports figures, black or white, have set a bad example and we continue to put the Barney Franks in office that should be in jail.
Romneys morality and ethics may be in his favor but him being pro Israel is sheer lunacy. His defending a country of lunatics, who even the UN has problems with by its many sanctions shows me his ethics are limited in scope, and cries hypocrisy. Either you have a set of values or not.
Defending a country that has murdered, maimed, attacked US naval vessels with impunity and not have the fortitude to discipline them outright and condemn their behavior is sheer cowardness.
But, then again, he wants to get elected so he can't. That is why I have no Idea who I will vote for, if at all. If you defend the actions of Israel then you don't get my vote.
Joe Rizoli
David Nolta
11:00 pm on Saturday, July 14, 2012
Jim--I must have struck a chord, to make you so offensive (though I seem to remember that you had already given us your "last word"). Whether or not I am interesting is hardly your subject of expertise, as it is hardly the subject of your article, this comment stream, or The Patch. Nor are you--let's be honest--in any position to assess my courage, nor to speak to the amount of time I dedicate to my writing, here or elsewhere (surely, before making such an attack, you will have familiarized yourself with my work... I write rather a lot--though maybe you wouldn't call my writing courageous. Nevertheless, "courageous" is not a word that comes to mind when I read your blog, either). As to your idea that I am "too content to hide behind a rock and snipe at others who are actually putting some time and thought into their work" -- well, among other things, THAT's a pretty cowardly snipe--if, as you say, writing a post can be a form of sniping. And I do in fact put a lot of time and thought into everything I write. My last question--and I am sorry if you find it uninteresting (though the Republicans I know are generally far more polite than you, and would never say so)--why do you invite discussion and then hypocritically, and with actual brutality, shut it down? Well, as long as you keep your promise this time, I can forgive you.
FindBalance
1:16 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
David – Wish I could have posted under one of your postings that attacked Jim’s statement, “If being a fiscal conservative is your #1 priority, then you will likely hold your nose and vote Republican. If gay rights is your #1 value, you will likely go Democrat”, but posting here will have to suffice.
You twice characterized this statement as gay vs the economy. However, you err that Jim’s statement is about Republican ideas being better for the economy - what it says is that Republicans are more fiscally conservative, which means they spend less money than their Democrat counterparts. But even though Jim didn’t say it, I will – Republican policies concerning the economy are way better than Democrat policies.
As for Jim’s example of Democrats being more supportive of gay rights, that comes right out of Democrat campaign ads, which try to characterize Republican candidates as anti-gay rights. So, Jim’s example of Dems = Gay rights is either accurate per assertions made by Democrats, or Republicans really aren’t against gay rights.
David Nolta
2:07 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
It was not Jim's position on either topic (gays or the economy) that struck me as tendentious. Nor was it the Democrats' or Republicans' versions of their positions on these two topics that seemed--and continues to seem--tendentious. It was the "random" choice of these particular topics as identifiers that established a reductive and unfair dichotomy. Why not choose war and the economy?
I will say here that I have been enlightened by this discussion. I feel as though I have wandered into a party to which I was invited but at which I am not actually welcome--that's okay! I think the simple fact that now, many of the local Patch posts turn up everywhere, is the only reason I read this blog--I was not familiar, as I have since familiarized myself, with the distinctly uncompromising, partisan, no-prisoners and no-mercy attitude of the blog--for that's what I've found, for all the mutual praising and thanking. I misunderstood the initial request for help and understanding--I WAS naive--and I mistook the invitation as an invitation to open dialogue. I see that it is not that at all, and so I am sorry to have spoiled your party, if that's what I have done. Thank God it's not the only party in town!
FindBalance
3:31 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
David - It is a dialogue, a back and forth, an exchange of ideas. It may be that on this blog you will find many more counterpoints to your points, but I can imagine that if a conservative posted to the blog of the Democrat Town Committee, they would receive a similar amountof counterpoints.
RE "It was the "random" choice of these particular topics as identifiers that established a reductive and unfair dichotomy. Why not choose war and the economy?"
Because I can hear you argue that war is horrific and is inflamatory, and so is inappropriate to bring up in a supposedly respectful blog.
Bottom line - They were widely accepted examples from each side of the aisle, but you chose to argue semantics.
David Nolta
4:00 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
FindBalance--You "can hear" me argue in a hypothetical situation? Isn't a dialogue dependent on both--on many--sides being allowed to speak for themselves? A respectful one should be, and a respectful person doesn't tell another person what he will or will not say. It's like when Jim summarized me by naming me a Democrat--as though that summarized and dismissed me all at once. And I'm sorry but I don't find many points being made here, nor many counterpoints, and few if any semantic arguments (which you have claimed, but not identified). Though like I said, it's your party. Sorry I crashed it!
FindBalance
6:38 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
Yes David, I can hear that argument coming from you. Let me say it a different way - I believe that is something you would say, had the example been give between war and the economy. I'm beginning to think you would find a way to complain and argue about anything. And I bet I can predict your response to this... :-)
David Nolta
11:05 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
Tell me, FindBalance, were you right? Be honest!!
Jim Hatherley
9:49 pm on Sunday, July 15, 2012
I actually want to thank you for helping me make my case to blog readers this morning, David. As noted in my response to Arthur above there is less value ifrom comments of people who agree with, than a reasoned dialogue with those who have doubts or even disputes. Hopefully the discussion will help those on the sidelines following along to arrive at a conclusion, or hopefully join in the conversation.
But, this is my blog. It has my name and picture on it. While I welcome all sorts of discussion, your too frequent intrusions are similar to yelling louder and then louder again as a means of getting attention, as if the person with the loudest voice must be right. After a while most people quickly conclude that the loudest person is simply ... the loudest person.
My hope is that people reading my blogs will appreciate what I present for their consideration and the respect with which I respond to them. So, thanks for creating the distinction - a great help for this particular blog.
David Nolta
11:48 pm on Sunday, July 15, 2012
As I said, I thank you, too, Jim. I didn't understand that one could post too frequently, and that notion remains a bit fuzzy still. I don't think I yell at all, and as I've agreed with numerous people who posted here, especially Christopher and Kim and UglyHat, I still believe that voting for an individual politician's character and proven credentials is the most important thing. We share a hope that people will read what we write and appreciate what we are trying to say. Lastly, I think if you go back and read some of your own posts, you might see that they were by no means always respectful, though, as you say, it is your blog, and has your picture on it.
Kim Poness
9:49 pm on Sunday, July 15, 2012
Jim – I’m going to have to break this up into two posts – I can’t seem to get my thoughts out in less than 1500 words! Though I am bristling at some of what you say, particularly (and still) the notion of unenrolled voters as disengaged, your blog has caused me to do some further research and give more thought to the question “are we headed in the right direction”. Here too I find the answer for me to be not quite so simple. Laid against the backdrop of the previous administration, and the accompanying near-catastrophic financial collapse, I have to say I think we ARE headed in the right direction. Are things moving too slowly? Indeed. Do I agree with everything this administration is doing? No, I don’t.
Kim Poness
9:49 pm on Sunday, July 15, 2012
Part Two:But I don’t believe the Republican Party could have done better. Perhaps this is a stretch, but when I look back at the historic income tax rates, there is a correlation between the overall prosperity of the country and the tax assessed to the wealthiest among us. Not to say that I think we should spread the wealth equally – I don’t. But do I think that my husband and I should pay a higher tax rate than a young family where the Mom is a sales clerk and the Dad is a factory worker (if such a thing even exists anymore). All of that said, and believing that the Republican Party is generally more fiscally conservative, I historically (okay, always) vote for a Republican governor in Massachusetts. Given the liberal nature of our Commonwealth, I believe we need balance that only a conservative governor can provide – since I have been able to vote, I haven’t seen a Democratic candidate for governor conservative enough to provide balance. There are, however, Republican ideals that I simply cannot align myself with. There are, in my opinion, some basic human rights issues that are deal-breakers for me.
Jim Hatherley
9:47 am on Monday, July 16, 2012
Kim, what a nice compliment that I have given you food for thought, as reflected by your well thought out posts. Nicely done, even if I would disagree with your conclusion at the Federal level. More food for you. This election is about Obama and his leadership ability. He has proven that he is incapable of leading - time for a change. If Roimney is no good, get rid of him too. The thing is that we need a leader who is as good as the people and we have not had one of these for a while - too long in fact. That's the way I see it. However, you did a great job advising that you are not a naive Unenrolled voter. Well done.
Kim Poness
12:52 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
Thanks, Jim. I'm glad you took my posts as a compliment, as you certainly should have. I always enjoy the opportunity to engage in a healthy debate, especially when it gives me the opportunity to take a look at what I think I know, what I think I believe, gather new (at least, new to me) information, and reassess. Generally speaking, I often feel bullied during political conversations, and find that my ultra-conservative friends expect me to listen to their side, but won't entertain mine. I think you've done a nice job of keeping an intelligent conversation going and taking all sides into consideration.
Ed Bertorelli
9:49 pm on Sunday, July 15, 2012
BTW- thanks Jim for your blog and your patient responses to some of the 'aggressive '
bloggers- look forward to your next blog.
Jim Hatherley
9:47 am on Monday, July 16, 2012
Thank you very much, Ed. This is all good. I look forward to writing future blogs that pique the interest of so many readers.
David Nolta
11:55 pm on Sunday, July 15, 2012
I look forward to it, too, Jim.
Arthur Hawkins
1:11 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
@Kim "..... I always enjoy the opportunity to engage in a healthy debate, especially when it gives me the opportunity to take a look at what I think I know, what I think I believe, gather new (at least, new to me) information, and reassess......." Couldn't agree more Kim. Jim both through the blog and in private conversation often brings forth information that is thoughtful, ideas/facts that I had not considered before, makes me think, (most often) listen to my ideas and hopes and leanings Ha! But it is precisely that back and forth sharing of ideas without the accompanying vitriol and chest pumping and denigration of ideas and persons that can lead to more informed decision making. Should only Congress have that capacity . But .....be careful....too much compliment to him and he is likely to plunk a VOTE Brown and Romney placard on your front lawn! Be well.
Jim Hatherley
10:49 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
Please don't stop ...
FindBalance
3:31 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
Hi Kim - From your statement, "Laid against the backdrop of the previous administration, and the accompanying near-catastrophic financial collapse", it sounds like you blame Republicans for the 2007/2008 financial collapse that led to the bad economy. Is it not widely accepted that the cause was that loans were given to people who could not afford to pay them back, and at as much as 105% of the value of homes whose values were inflated? The people who worked tirelessly to force those lending standards on banks were Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, who succeeded in 2003 in convincing the R's there was no risk back when the R's were trying to reform this policy.
Not sure how you think the prev admin caused the bad economy, but if you believe Wall St had their role in the financial collapse (which led to the bad economy), I do, too. But to say that this because of the previous administration is incorrect. WS's "products" amplified the credit crisis, but it was because of Dem policies of "guaranteeing" the loans (through Freddie and Fannie, who Barney Frank insisted were completely solvent just 1 month before the financial meltdown) that emboldened WS to take reckless risk in leveraging assets 36x their value.
Continued…
FindBalance
3:31 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
Continuation…
If you think the prev admin is responsible because they were in some way connected to WS, remember that WS gave more to Pres Obama's campaign by far than any other; and of the ties that bind, how about Barney Frank helping his ex to a high post in Fannie, and then having oversight of the organization? Also, it is the House Finance Committee that has oversight of the Financial Industry, and they did nothing. And the Chair of the House FC from 2004 - 2008, the 4 years leading up to the financial crisis that brought the economy to its knees, was none other than Barney Frank.
So I can’t agree with you that it was President Bush’s administration that caused the financial meltdown that led to the poor economy.
This is the more important question - how do you believe the previous administration is responsible for the economic crisis? Did they "let" WS do this because they were in WS's back pocket (remember, too, that WS gave more to Pres Obama's campaign by far than any other)? The answer to that is No. It is actually the House Finance Committee that has oversight of the Financial Industry, and they did nothing. And the Chair of the House FC from 2004 - 2008, the 4 years leading up to the financial crisis that brought the economy to its knees, was none other than Barney Frank.
FindBalance
4:03 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
Ooops - apologies - please ignore the last paragraph in the last post - it's tough to edit long comments sometimes, and I didn't realize I had kind of repeated myself...
Kim Poness
4:03 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
@FindBalance - yes, I understand that the financial collapse is much more complex than I noted. That said, it's not entirely accurate to place the blame at the feet of Barney Frank and Chris Dodd either. There were many factors at play, far too many to list in a blog on the Patch. No doubt that anyone contributing here has read opinions and explanations on both sides (I hope) of the aisle. Something like this doesn’t just happen overnight, or in four years. War, lower taxes for the wealthy, relaxed control of the financial markets – an economic perfect storm, don’t you think? My research indicates that it started in the 1980’s, and pretty closely followed the pattern of the Great Depression with respect to speculation in the financial markets. I’m not sure when this 30 or 40-year cycle started, or ends, but we need to reinstitute the controls that helped pull us out of that earlier financial collapse. Among other things.
FindBalance
6:38 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
Kim - no time to respond to your thoughtfull post right now. I hope I can within the next day, so please keep a watch out. :-)
FindBalance
4:42 pm on Tuesday, July 17, 2012
Hi Kim - as promised. I hope this makes some sense... have to break it up into 3 parts...
It’s just that you seemed to place blame for the financial collapse squarely and entirely at the feet of the previous administration, to which I assume you mean only President Bush’s administration and not the Congress.
Your first example - Was relaxed control of the financial markets partially to blame? I say no, since there were no significant changes in the rules governing the financial markets that relaxed control during the Bush years. I see it as the govt’s failure to adequately oversee (with the rules that existed) what the financial markets were doing (same as the SEC’s failure to oversee and prevent Bernie Madoff’s illegal activities; btw, this is the 3rd time since the late 1980’s that some form of derivative has caused a stock market crash, and there is still nothing to prevent the same thing from happening again, including the Frank/Dodd Financial Reform Law). I again refer you to the governing body to which that oversight primarily falls – the House Finance Committee, of which Barney Frank was Chair for the 4 years leading up to the financial meltdown. I agree that it’s not all Barney’s fault, but there are a lot of things from a lot of different directions that are pointing his way.
FindBalance
4:45 pm on Tuesday, July 17, 2012
Your second example - I also don’t believe that lower taxes for the wealthy was a cause of the financial meltdown. That actually met its intended purpose (and was enacted way before the financial crisis); at the end of the Clinton presidency, the country was in a bit of an economic funk (remember when the Internet Bubble burst?). The Bush Tax cuts spurred new economic activity by the private sector, and unemployment went down! Even if there was no Bush tax cut for the wealthy (and every working American, who also benefited from those tax cuts), the extra taxes that presumably would have been collected would have been so miniscule compared to the magnitude of the 2008 financial tsunami, that it would have had no effect on its occurrence (it would have happened anyway).
FindBalance
4:45 pm on Tuesday, July 17, 2012
Third - The wars could have had some impact if that money hadn’t been spent elsewhere or better yet, returned to the taxpayers, but a financial meltdown still would have come – through no fault of Bush’s, as described before. Also, being attacked on 9/11 was not Bush’s fault, but he needed to respond and did. I don’t think he did the best job with the wars (they could have had a better exit plan, and to let our soldiers do their job instead of tying their hands, etc.), but I think they were necessary.
Since none of the 3 examples you give were the actual cause of the Financial Meltdown, and the FM could not have been foreseen (according to everyone on Wall Street and everyone in politics), then I can’t see how the Bush admin could have accounted in their governing for something that could not have been predicted.
In short, I don’t see that the Bush admin in any way *caused* the financial meltdown. It was Democrats and Democrat policies, and Wall Street over-leveraging their bets (which was not the Bush admin’s fault, but it was WS’s fault and lack of oversight by the House Finance Committee led by Dems) that was easily 95% of the cause of the financial collapse.
So, I respectfully don’t agree with your theory of an economic perfect storm. Thank you, though, for the opportunity to respond to your concerns – they were certainly thought-provoking, and for wading through my explanation.
Kim Poness
10:02 am on Wednesday, July 18, 2012
@FindBalance - oh my! Now it's my turn to take a day or so to digest what you've (also VERY thoughfully) written and "hit the books" yet again. Thank you for that, and I'll be back soon!
Myd Nevins
4:03 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
I'll be honest, I can't tell the difference between Republicans and Democrats. All seem the same to me.
David Nolta
4:12 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
I would LOVE to see some credible and objective evidence that WS "gave more to Pres Obama's campaign by far than any other." And the war in Iraq--do you deny that it was costly? Ruinous, even. And it was the direct and devastating result of a dishonest manipulation of the American people by the Bush government. And Bush's tax breaks for the wealthy--unprecedentedly coinciding with an expensive war? And Bush's huge stimulus packages, so much more palatable than his successor's? http://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/2011/08/republicans_stimulus.html
FindBalance, that's a good idea. We should try to find balance. No balance here so far, but we're working on it!
FindBalance
6:38 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
Here are some:
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/10/10/guess-which-president-has-raked-in-the-most-wall-street-bucks-in-a-generation/
Despite his rhetorical attacks on Wall Street, a study by the Sunlight Foundation’s Influence Project shows that President Barack Obama has received more money from Wall Street than any other politician over the past 20 years, including former President George W. Bush.
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-04-20/politics/obama.goldman.donations_1_obama-campaign-presidential-campaign-federal-election-commission-figures?_s=PM:POLITICS
From FactCheck.org
During the 2008 campaign, Obama raised about $42.8 million from the finance/insurance/real estate industry -- far above McCain’s haul of about $31.1 million. (FactCheck.org wrote that Obama’s haul was more than George W. Bush’s in 2004 even when adjusted for inflation.)
Add up all the financial grpoups, and Pres Obama was supported by Wall Street more than any other President.
David Nolta
8:53 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
Well, I hope it's okay for me to repost what I said already, inreponsectobwhat you said already, regarding these sources. If not, forgive!
Now THIS, FindBalance, is fascinating! Your second link claims that despite the large investment by Goldman Sachs in the Obama campaign in 2008, Obama's government has NOT given them special treatment--in fact, he has not pandered to his donors, wherever they are from. Good for him! The first link, which any reader will recognize as rather biased, would seem to be counterBALANCED by the respected Christian Science Monitor's recent claims that Wall Street has "returned" to the Republican Party, and that RIGHT NOW, Wall Street is supporting Romney, not Obama. That is, ROMNEY is receiving the greatest number of dollars for his campaign, not the incumbent. Something to think about, no?
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/From-the-Wires/2012/0202/Mitt-Romney-draws-more-Wall-Street-donations-than-Obama
FindBalance
6:38 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
Frankly, I think the current administration is so far to the left that being literally in the middle makes you look like you are far to the right. You say you like Scott Brown, David, but will vote for Elizabeth Warren. Scott Brown is about as moderate as you can get, but you choose the far left liberal instead.
Concerned Citizen
10:49 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
If Bill Clinton had taken out Osama Bin Laden when he had the opportunity, we would not have had 9-11, which was ruinous to our country. Intelligence in Europe after 9-11 also indicated that Iraq had WMD, and George Bush sought to keep us safe by going into Iraq. I will always be grateful to George Bush for what he did to prevent another attack on our country while he was president.
It seems to me that Mr. Nolta has something against successful hard-working Americans, as he wants to paint them all as moguls and corporate giants; maybe Mr. Nolta is just jealous.
David Nolta
11:00 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
Oh Concerned Citizen--I hope I work as hard as you, though I wouldn't presume, as you have, to claim to know that I have a greater sympathy for the working, middle class to which I belong. My posts on that topic must answer for me. And if you want to hold onto that sad delusion about WMD, that is your privilege. But it tends not to be a priority of the current Republican agenda. As from President Bush himself, Republicans in general have backed away...
David Nolta
11:01 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
And this mogul-painting? Whaaaa? Oh I forgot, you're the WMD person.
David Nolta
8:59 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
No, I choose the person I find smarter and more capable when it comes to protecting the interests of the working classes--the middle class to which I belong. You say she is far to the left, but I don't see that, any more than I see it when people far to the right accuse President Obama of being far to the left, at the same time people on the far left accuse President Obama of not being far enough to the left... And these categories, and these generalizations, don't really interest or worry me much. Labels are incomplete by their nature, so I tend to look underneath them and vote for what I see as the substance.
Jim Hatherley
8:11 am on Tuesday, July 17, 2012
Good morning David. I have been away for a few days but I see that you continue to believe that this blog is about you, and your incessant need for attention by snidely carping at every other participant. You will doubtless have something equally smart to say to me just for bringing this up. But I continue to advise that this is my blog, and I was interested in better understanding about Unenrolled voters, not voters like you with a "Go Obama" imprimature at the bottom of your posts on other strings. Please, you are what you are and everyone by now has seen it. We get it. You are a Democrat - and there is nothing wrong with that, but there is nothing special about it either. So, please don't continue to discourage people who would otherwise post but fear being attacked when they add a few of their thoughts to the discussion. All the best, and thanks again for creating the opportunity for many people to see the difference between positions. I see this as a real positive.
David Nolta
8:43 am on Tuesday, July 17, 2012
Well good morning to you, too!
Arthur Hawkins
8:45 am on Tuesday, July 17, 2012
Good Morning Jim,
The days away did you well.......your response here this AM is calm, well-stated and adheres to what you want to accomplish in your blogs.....reasoned discourse on important topics. That said I am 'unenrolled', as you know,and wish to remain that way as it allows me the democratic (small 'd') opportunity to place my vote and confidence for the man or woman who best fits my hope and beliefs ....which do change over time precisely because I have been exposed to and am open to others' ideas, facts, and changing events. Events and circumstances are not black or white for me and I am sometimes plagued, some might say, with being in the gray areas at times.....but being there allows me to weigh the black and the white and do what I think best at the time.
Jim Rizoli
10:01 am on Tuesday, July 17, 2012
As we continue getting into wars that have no bearing on us here and electing the people who put us in these drain the bank wars, do you honestly think it makes one bit of difference whether your unenrolled or not? The wrong people keep getting voted in and the country is falling apart. The voters on both parties have no clue and this is where we are. Obama, Romney makes no difference Congress runs the show, the president is just a figurehead. You're just pawns on the chessboard when you vote for whoever. Ending is the same.
Since none of you here really care about what the whole problem is and just want to hear yourself talk I'll make my leave.
Jim@ccfiile.com
Jim Hatherley
12:20 pm on Tuesday, July 17, 2012
Jim, thanks for hanging in there on this blog, and don't give up on t yet. We need your imput. I have gone through periods of time when I do not believe the President makes a difference and yet the Country has endured. Names like Carter, Ford, Bush, and even Clinton at times when he was going through his point the finger and lie to you phase. But Obama has been different in terms of the arrogance with which he regards Congress, and the people. I am not going to go down a grossly partisan road about Obama here (other blogs have been written, more will follow for that), apart from saying that nearly four years into his term we know more about Romney's life than his. Presidents absolutely matter - even more in the age of 24 hour news. Thanks for your comments.
Dave Lenane
10:19 am on Tuesday, July 17, 2012
Jim Rizoli ....wow I almost agree with everything you said! It's definitely time for all our troops to come home. And career politicians make me sick. America needs to step up this November and sweep out all officials that have been in office more than 2 terms. Here's hoping that happens!
Jim Hatherley
3:18 pm on Tuesday, July 17, 2012
Dave, thanks for this. I am with you about the tropps as long as you include those stationed in Korea, Germany and wherever else in the world they are. We must allow Europe to defend itself which means NOT relying on American taxpayers to fund their defense or provide military for their battles. And, the term limit issue is so long over due ... Thanks for adding your input. If you are unenrolled, what is your story for that?
FindBalance
10:53 am on Tuesday, July 17, 2012
Jim R, please don't leave. Let me see if I get what you are saying is the solution - smaller govt with less power and less intrusion into our lives, protecting individual liberty. You have good support for your position - that's what the Founding Fathers envisioned!
Jim Rizoli
12:20 pm on Tuesday, July 17, 2012
I didn't mean leave Patch...LOL This is where the great thinkers hang out.
Jim@ccfiile.com
Annie Kay
3:18 pm on Tuesday, July 17, 2012
As a 19 year old single mother, I am currently unenrolled. Not because I am disinterested, naive, or nobel. Simply because I am going to vote for whoever I think is best given my current situation. I work hard, but only make a couple hundred dollars a week. So I am on Mass Health. I am on WIC. I took a year off after I finished High School, but I am going back to school come August. I am not religious, I consider myself liberal in terms of "hot button" issues, but conservative in other areas. Right now, from what I know by having a republican mother and mostly democratic friends, Romney would not do me, personally, much good. Now, that's not to say that I think Obama is great, but it's all relative. I want to be able to say that I am unenrolled or independant because I truely am just that. I am a free thinker, I don't buy in to propoganda on either side, and besides elections, I have my beliefs but I stay away from politics in general. I have too much else to worry about. I don't care about stepping on toes or coming off too strong. I don't mind standing up for what I think is right, or listening (Really, truely listening and considering) to people with differing opinions. But I don't like the extremeness belonging to a party seems to bring. It takes a lot less energy to suddenly get angry than it does to calm down, but thats what I think both parties need- to calm down, to compromise. Then I'll re-evaluate and decide.
Jim Hatherley
4:52 pm on Tuesday, July 17, 2012
Annie, thank you for your most earnest comment. I appreciate that. About 100 posts ago I quoted Wiinston Churchill who said that if you were 20 and not liberal you didn't have a heart, but if you were 40 and not conservative you did not have a brain. It seems to me that you are evolving much faster than even Churchill contemplated. You have very specific issues with which you must deal. But since you are going back to school, it sounds like you are on the right track, and if you have a Republican mother you definietley have a great support system. You are right that both parties have hunkered down too tightly right now. If the President is about leading the Country, what we have seen is incresing divisiveness and class warfare since Obama was elected. His re-election would only make thnis worse - time for a change, and if Romney proves to be no better than Obama, time to make a change until we get someone who understands how to knit America back together again. Thanks again for posting.
Kim Poness
10:02 am on Wednesday, July 18, 2012
@Jim - a little tongue-in-cheek here, but I, like Annie, was a single mother at 19 (18, actually). My mother was widowed when I was 3 years old, and never remarried. She raised her children on her own, as I raised mine on my own. She was a fabulous support system, instilling in me self-reliance, pride, and resourcefulness, among other things. And, um, she was and is a Democrat :) Just saying :)
David Nolta
6:20 pm on Tuesday, July 17, 2012
Obama cares so much more about the working people of America than Mitt Romney. But to know that, you have to listen to them both, and consider their records when it comes to issues like wages, working conditions, equal opportunity across gender lines, etc. Given what we know of his record as a corporate executive, Romney will not do much good for the vast majority of working Americans. But good luck, Annie.
FindBalance
8:20 am on Wednesday, July 18, 2012
He sure does, Dave. All you have to do is abdicate your responsibility, power, assets to him,, and he'll take care of you (and everyone) as he sees fit.
And why do you have to rely so much on the govt so much, anyway - shouldn't you rely on yourself?
Besides, many of the supposed problems you bring up are merely an embelishment, and which a free and open market takes care of.
Dave Lenane
6:31 pm on Tuesday, July 17, 2012
Jim...I am an enrolled Republican! Ronald Reagan was our GREATEST President!
Jim Rizoli
6:46 pm on Tuesday, July 17, 2012
Here's the deal....... I actually like Obama seems like a nice guy.
But sad to say he's being led astray by his advisers who have their own agenda and it's not for the betterment of America, and he probably sees it by now.
I don't think he's going to elected because he's pissed off some powerful people and organizations....like AIPAC. Big money behind them.
Now for golden spoon Mitt.....Nice fella, he can't relate to any of us as much as he thinks he can.
Brought up with money and never had to go without....sorry MITT you are not one of us.
So we have a decision between one who is a nice guy being cast off because of not going along with the program of the "Elites".
On the other hand Golden Boy Mitt, fits right in, he's a war hawk, loves Israel and that's where the money is right now.
Me, I'll pass on both. It's hard to watch the country go down the worm hole but there is nothing I can do....and nothing these fellas can do either because they nave been bought out by BIG money.
Our concerns are not important as much as the corporations and banks, and special interest running Congress. Remember "special interest" doesn't mean you or me.
Just my thoughts.
Jim@ccfiile.com
Kim Poness
10:02 am on Wednesday, July 18, 2012
@Jim - I don't always agree with your point of view, but in this instance, I feel you've echoed the sentiments of so many people, and you've done it well.
Jim Hatherley
11:02 am on Wednesday, July 18, 2012
Kim, I love the comment about your Mother. This only re-emphasizes that a person's most important source of support is their Mom/family, and not eternal dependence on government. Good mothering passes on from one generation to the next, but so does dependence on government. Anyway, thanks for sharing, you made me smile.
Kim Poness
3:47 pm on Wednesday, July 18, 2012
@Jim H. - ah, so very true. I am a very strong believer that family helps family (not enables, but helps). I think that at the time of its inception, "welfare" made sense - as a temporary boost during devastating economic times. What it is today is simply a travesty.